Today, Drew and Patrick are discussing the Flash 8, originally released April 25th, 2012.
Check out Drew’s exclusive interview with Francis Manapul here!
Drew: Last month, Patrick voiced some concerns about objectively judging this title. Maybe we want to like it too much to say whether we actually do. After putting this issue down a little disappointed, but deciding that it was brilliant before starting this write-up, one could conclude I’ve already crossed the line of objectivity. However, I’d like to make the case for why this seemingly eventless and exposition-heavy issue actually carries the torch of thematic unity that has made this title so fantastic.
The issue begins in the air above Italy during World War II as Turbine — then US Army Air Force Lieutenant Roscoe Hynes — is sucked (along with his plane) into the speed force. Jump to “now” in the speed force, where Turbine fights Flash in hopes of using him to escape. Flash quickly (ha) defuses the situation, and Turbine explains that he’s been trapped in the speed force since WWII, and that only Barry has the power to get out. He also explains that it’s not Barry’s fault things get sucked into or through the speed force — it’s apparently been doing this since the dawn of time, and Turbine’s attempts to escape have caused many of the recent vortices. Turbine tells Barry that Iris must have gotten sucked into another time period, so Barry resolves to return (with Turbine) to the present, in order to avoid altering the timeline. Turbine doesn’t like the sound of that, so another fight ensues, this one landing them in Gorilla City, where Gorilla Grodd has just killed his father in a battle for the throne. Meanwhile, back in Central City, a memorial service is held for four city cops, including Barry, whom everyone believes died in the last issue. We also (almost) get confirmation that Singh is dating the Pied Piper, who has apparently reformed. AND it turns out Iris is stuck in the speed force after all.
That paragraph is long because there’s a lot to explain, but not much actually happens in this issue. I’m not such an action-addict that that alone would bother me, but the fact that there’s no real emotional narrative — no emotions actually change this issue — makes this issue little more than an exposition-dump. All we get are facts. Some are presented narratively, but many feel shoehorned-in, and even more are flat-out explained to us by Turbine. I put down the issue ready to forgive it for being saddled with so much to explain to set-up what would likely be better issues down the line — but then I started thinking about what the issue was actually about.
In the same way that issue 7 required an adjustment in perspective to appreciate it’s theme of unknown effects, issue 8 requires another adjustment to appreciate it’s own theme of rendering cause and effect meaningless. We’ve seen this theme crop up as Barry learned to think quicker, and as the EMP traveled back in time, but this is the first time we’ve encountered it in a world that exists outside of time. In the other instances, it made sense to invert cause and effect, but in a place where everything happens simultaneously, there can be no before or after, so there can be no change. That nothing happens in this issue isn’t a failure of storytelling but yet another example of themes resonating with the very way the narrative is presented.
Not to be too defensive, but this reading is borne-out in the art. Francis Manapul’s wildly inventive layouts are replaced with much more traditional “rectangular panel leads to rectangular panel” normalcy. The few times he breaks with this model, the emphasis isn’t on action, but on depicting the speed force as a very static place, even as our characters move through it.
Here, we see the panels guide us as the characters move through the space, but the space itself just hangs there out of time. The issue itself behaves in a similar way, offering no real changes even as our characters move from point A to point B.
The habit of this title to have the way the story is presented so impacted by each issue’s themes can be frustrating, but that in itself is another theme — that of Flash as a moving target. That we never get a good bead on him makes sense for the Flash — more so than more mono-thematic titles like Batman or Nightwing — and that kind of meta-theme really pulls this whole title together in a way that I thought only those mono-thematic books were capable of. On it’s own, this issue doesn’t look like much, but it adds depth to the entire title when taken as a whole.
That is, if that reading holds water. I fully realize this sounds like grasping at straws, and I’m not convinced that it isn’t. I trust this title to handle its themes deftly, but I also understand that that may mean moving the pieces around the board from time to time. The worst crime this issue could be accused of is setting the stage for more exciting issues, but when the highest praise I can give it is that it unifies a brilliant series, being a little more precise seems warranted. Unfortunately, I can’t be more precise.
I always value the cross-talk nature of our write-ups, but this is the first time I’ve been so eager to hear a second opinion on an issue. Not that disagreement would invalidate the reading — I think it works if I want it to — but I could use a second opinion on knowing if I like the reading. Man, I don’t even know if the fact that it has me questioning the nature of analysis is a good sign or a bad one. Help me out here, Patrick.
Patrick: This is definitely a “huh” issue. I think most of what you’re reading into it is actually there. But I know there’s no way you’d look hard enough to find it if this wasn’t a latest The Flash. Let’s not cheapen that, though – the reason this series is so successful is because Manapul and Buccaletto (and the rest of the creative team) have been warm, adventurous and innovative for 7 whole issues. Getting a discerning asshole like you to give a slower issue the benefit of the doubt is a sign that the abstract form of The Flash works. I think about how quickly we panned Detective Comics 8 (I’m not actually comparing these two because I’m not insane) and I know we were unkind to it because we had no good will built up towards it. And good will is a commodity Manapul has rightly identified that his version of the Flash is flushed with.
By way of supporting your theme-of-stasis thesis, I want to talk about that the scenes that take place out of the Speedforce. First, we’ve got that funeral. Funeral scenes in movies and TV shows almost always serve the purpose to cement some change in our character’s lives. Sometimes it’s as simple as “we’re not going to see character x anymore” and sometimes it indicates a coming power-struggle (or whatever). But this is a funeral for a character we know to be alive. And that’s not the only dramatic irony in the scene: the police chief explicitly says that Barry served the city and was a hero without super powers (he even lists super speed specifically). And as a weird little topper, Patty blames the Flash for, well everything we were just told he’s not responsible for. The worlds and actions of the Central City Police grind against what we understand as true, and the whole narrative stops. We barely even get the Pied Piper introduction (that we did such a kickass job of calling in the comments section last month).
The other scene of substance outside the speedforce is the battle between Gorilla Godds (Gorillas Grodd?). The outcome of the fight is patently pointless. If the elder wins the fight, he eats the brains of the junior and gains him memories. If the junior wins, he eats the brains of the elder, gains his memories and becomes king. Either way, the two become one and that singular entity continues to rule Gorilla City.
So, I generally support your reading. It’s interesting that you feel the need to determine the validity of your observations. I know there were a bunch of times in high school or college when I would turn in an English paper which I thought had identified a strong thematic through-line, only to have my analysis shot down for not matching up with the accepted scholarship on the work. That’s a devastating feeling. And even if you concede that you missed the principal theme or message or unifying idea of a piece, isn’t there value in your take-away regardless? This is especially true of new art – and this is some of the newest art you can experience. The comic-review-community will rush to a certain judgment about this issue, and a temporary consensus will be reached. But it won’t be for a very long time (if ever) that there’s an authoritative statement on what issue 8 of The Flash was all about.
Goodness gracious, I’d like to also actually talk about the issue. Abstract concepts of theories of literary criticism are fun and all, but this THE FUCKING FLASH we’re talking about.
I love those big double-page splashes you pointed out. Not only do they express the passage of time (whatever that means in that environment) in a neat way, but they also have a fun M.C. Escherish approach to space. But Manapul and Buccaletto double-down on this visual coolness of the speedforce with all of those swirling background memories. Just last week, Captain Atom found himself in the Time Stream, but for that character, the space was an access point for any point in time. It was trippy and cool but way impersonal. But Barry’s Time Stream / Speedforce is incredibly personal – every panel depicts multiple memories from his life and beyond. Sometimes the images are mundane (there’s one that’s just literally an apple pie sitting on a table) and some are dramatic, but they all effectively feed into the character of Barry Allen.
Really, the water color memories alone justify the purchase of this issue. It’s almost like an invisible layer of paneling behind everything else. I mean, look how the image above is composed and tell me it’s not awesome. There’s easily as much — if not more — storytelling in these background images than in the foreground action.
I mean hot damn: the art in this series! Even sticking to traditional rectangle-to-rectangle layouts, these guys manage to melt my mind with a great little panel where Flash and Turbine start to fade away into their own motion lines.
Yeah, okay, this wasn’t the most exciting issue of this series, but it is beautiful. You know I reads all my comics digitally these days, but I’m totally going to pick up a hard copy of this one tomorrow.There’s just so much Flash-ness on every page, the quiet kind that would look great in a frame or something. Ooooooh! I think I’m doing some crafting tomorrow night!
For a complete list of what we’re reading, head on over to our Pull List page. Whenever possible, buy your comics from your local mom and pop comic bookstore. If you want to rock digital copies, head on over to DC’s website and download issues there. There’s no need to pirate, right?
Patrick, that’s an awesome idea. I should go find second copies of issues with beautiful art *coughThomasCurrySunsetcough* and start a gallery in my living room.
In college one of my friends made really cool collages out of comic book panels.
The “comic college collage.” Classic.
“cool comic college collage”
So I didn’t mention this in the write up, but Turbine speaks strangely: he will repeat words or phrases, usually in groups of three. Is this character just going crazy from being alone so long OR is the fact that he’s stuck in untime effect how we (the reader) perceives his actions?
Either way, that could also be used to further prove Drew’s thesis.
could he perhaps stutter? Or do you think he might be losing some sanity because he was stuck in the Speed Force.
The thing is that it didn’t look like a stutter, you know what I mean? If I were writing a stuttering character, it would look like this: “I th-th-th-think we’re in trouble.” But Turbine would totally say “I think we’re in trouble we’re in trouble we’re in trouble.”
It’s clearly caused by the speed force — he doesn’t do it at all in the glimpse we get of him before he was sucked in. Whether it’s insanity or just a warping of time is debatable. There are a lot of idiosyncrasies with the way Turbine speaks — check out the random speech bubble with the scraggly tail in that first page I posted. He seems to definitely be a little crazy, but it’s kind of ambiguous whether the speed force looping his words.
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So, what’s the verdict? Feel validated? Does it matter?
I think it’s the Speed Force. It’s almost like he repeats things because he is talking fast, like the Speed Force warping his speech.
I don’t know if it was validation I was looking for, per se. I definitely like the issue, I guess I just wanted to see if my…oh, maybe it is validation. In that case, I don’t know if I got it (or if I could get it). Frick. Subjectivity sucks.
It wasn’t that I needed someone to agree with me — I just needed to hear I wasn’t crazy.
Brian Buccellato pointed out on twitter that we kind of neglected to mention Barry’s new role in relation to the speed force as a pressure-release valve. I don’t know enough about Flash mythology, but I think I remember Patrick mentioning that, at least before the reboot, the speed force is actually generated by Barry. I was thinking about that as I read this issue — that Barry could have created a force that exists outside of time, such that it’s been affecting things throughout history, long before Barry actually created the speed force. I still don’t exactly have my head around it, but it’s an exciting idea.
Yeah, man, Barry’s relationship to the speedforce is a sticky wicket. I guess I was working from pre-relaunch information when I made the assertion that Barry’s running created the speedforce.
The old mythology connected all other Speedsters to Barry – almost made him the grandfather of all of everyone who taps into the speedforce. But it seems like we’re in a world with no other speedsters now, so that relationship loses it relevance.
Barty’s still running around in Teen Titans. Actually, understanding how they explain his relationship to Barry in a world where Barry couldn’t travel through time might justify picking up Teen Titans (I also loves me some Tim Drake). Anybody know how they’ve handled Barty’s origins in the DCnU?
Shoot man, good point. I keep forgetting about Bart. It’s possible that Teen Titans might deserve a pick-up. Especially because one of the second wave books (Ravagers – we’re not planning on covering it) is spun off from Titans and Superboy.
Bart’s origins have yet to be fully addressed. Bart doesn’t remember his own origins–he showed up in the present day with no memories and super speed, and became Kid Flash in part to get someone to actually pay attention to him and help him figure out what was going on with his memories/abilities.
Bart’s past is an ongoing plot thread and appears to be what the book will be tackling once the Culling is over. What we do know for sure is that he IS from the future, his name IS Bart Allen, and in the future he appears to be some sort of two-bit thug, working with a bunch of other kid hooligans. A police officer who appears to secretly be an undercover cop from the future recognized Bart when the Titans had a run-in with the cops, and was especially surprised to see that Bart “showed up in the present months sooner than he was supposed to.”
Other than that, his origins and his connections to Barry/The Speed Force are a complete mystery. In issue 1, The Flash was said to have told the news that “he has no connection to Kid Flash”, so we know Barry doesn’t know anything about Bart’s past.
Also, Teen Titans has its faults, and Issue 8 was (unfortunately) a mess, but it’s still a really, really fun book and is pretty much always in my top five books each month.
As always, man, thanks for plugging in the pieces of information we’re just way too lazy to look up for ourselves. It’s weird how much of a reset was thrown at the Flash family while other families (Lanterns and Bats in particular) got to keep plugging away with decades-old stories and relationships.
I’ve found a lot of surprise pleasure in the other lower-tier team books of the relaunch. When it’s working, Birds of Prey is really great and Green Lantern: New Guardians has worked itself up into a pretty compelling fervor after a slowish start. Maybe I need to consider add the Titans to that line-up.
No problem man, I enjoy dispensing information like that. I guess I should mention, even though I only seem to comment when I’m filling in blanks, I do read pretty much all your reviews and really enjoy them. I got linked here a few weeks ago from Gail Simone’s Twitter, where she posted a link to one of your Batgirl reviews, and liked the site enough to stick around and add it to my daily routine.
As for Titans, if you do decide to check it out, please don’t judge it by Issue #8. It’s a mess and not representative of the series normal quality. Issues 4, 6 and 7 are probably the series best, because the whole team is finally assembled and there’s a good mix of banter and interpersonal relationships and action.
You’re right to point out the images floating around Barry and Turbine as they walk around the speed force. They’re hinting very strongly at a narrative for Barry’s life (though, as you noted, often through more abstract moments and images), but I still hesitate to read too much into what they might mean. Barry’s mom is definitely dead, and it looks like Barry was visiting someone in prison. It’s easy to assume we know the story, but until I’m explicitly told, I’m going to avoid assuming anything.
In response to our review, Francis Manapul offers (via twitter):
“Regarding the themes, I won’t debunk any of your theories as everyone is suppose to come away with their own take much like the art is layered as are the themes. on a basic level it’s a cautionary tale to the flash. In terms of real story progress that I’d have to disagree as this issue is a big turning point for Barry. He just found out no matter what he has to run. The burden of the world was just thrust on his shoulders and this really is a point of no return. Barry’s life will never be the same. On the surface the funeral is mean for his friends to grieve, but in reality it symbolizes that his old life is gone. This is that point in the movie where “there is no turning back”. Now he has to move forward much like the Speed Forces urges him to do so when he is in there: good or bad it doesn’t matter to the SF as long as the Flash is making forward progress. :)”
And a smiley! Thoughts?
“good or bad it doesn’t matter to the SF as long as the Flash is making forward progress” is a particularly interesting thought. What would the need to constantly move do to someone and their relationships? What a great theme for the Flash to deal with.
I love that this issue is Barry symbolically saying goodbye to his old life. He’s not going to be a cop anymore, unless he is magically back from the dead as Barry Allen. (which i think is highly possible, since it would difficult for him to function without a real life).
I understand the symbolism, I’m just curious how they are going to handle Barry still having to be alive, even though to everyone else he is dead and buried.
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