As the DCnU continues to develop, many series will feature regular back-up stories that tie into — and act as supplemental material to — the main action. Does this effect the value of these titles? Is the DC Universe richer or simply more cluttered for it? What do back-ups give the audience that can’t be achieved otherwise? Welcome to the Chat Cave.
Peter: I want to get right in front of this; I am excited about back-up stories. I’ve been reading All-Star Western – which has had back-ups since issue 1 – and I love those stories just as much as the main storyline. It has allowed Jimmy Palmotti and Justin Gray to introduce new characters, (Barbury Ghost) and old characters (El Diablo) for future use, as well as tell back stories of current characters (Nighthawk and Cinnamon) without detracting from their main story. Hell, sometimes I read the back-up story first.
Back-up stories can go in a couple different directions. 1) They can be used to weave a story that (for the most part) is set apart from the main storyline of the book – see The Curse of SHAZAM!; 2) they can provide background on current characters or story elements from the main story of the book – see Nighthawk and Cinnamon; 3) they can set up potential new story elements for later – see the upcoming Two-Face story in Detective Comics; and finally 4) they can be totally unrelated – see Marvel’s History of the Avengers back-ups. You know what, I don’t really see a problem with any of these. But, I will say that I am a Universe-buff, and love trying to know everything about every character, to the point where Patrick asks me regularly about things he hasn’t encountered yet. So, even though stories may not be related, I will be reading them anyway with great anticipation.
I also would not have a problem with DC raising some prices on these issues. We have already seen All-Star Western go up to $3.99, and others as well. While DC recently put a lot of emphasis on their “Drawing The Line At $2.99” campaign, I don’t foresee a rebellion by comic book readers. Plus, with the New 52 reboot, the back-up stories give DC the opportunity to reintroduce characters that were not given their own titles. That way, they can deploy them later without have to give a lot of space over to exposition. (again, like SHAZAM!). So, bring it on: the more, the better.
Patrick: I’ll challenge that. Look, I love extra content as much as the next guy, but the experience of reading a single issue of any comic is so slight that tracking additional material feels… oddly placed. I’m going to reinforce here that I’m not opposed to getting more information about the characters and settings I’m currently enjoying. It’s just a little weird to get this PS at the end of an issue. If these stories are worth my time, why don’t they exist as mini-series alongside my favorites? As it is, I feel like I’m forced to pay for the extra content and if that’s the case: is it really “extra?”
Unfortunately, most of my experience with back-ups suggests that the back-up is the B material. And that sucks, because the kind of story implied by “back-up” is really interesting to me. Character-based vingettes that give me more insight into the way our heroes (and villains) work: it should be awesome. But the delivery is wrong. I read an article on-line about how the fan reaction to SHAZAM! may determine how DC distributes it in the future. Obviously, if everyone loves it, the former Captain gets his own series, but if reaction is lukewarm, the series may go ALL DIGITAL. I love this idea – partially because I take in so many of my comics digitally now anyway, but if there was a way to pick, choose and purchase this shorter stories separately (again, I like the thought of the implied social media aspect of this – suggesting stories for other readers, sharing “playlists,” etc.)
Drew: I think I agree with a synthesis of your arguments: more content is awesome (Peter) if it’s worth the extra time and money you spend on it (Patrick). This makes my argument a bit of a case-by-case basis thing, which is kind of a cop-out, so I’ll grow a pair and say that I like the practice on the whole. To me, it’s more about a playing with the form than about a means of delivering universe-altering content. In that way, I like back-ups in comics for the same reason I like cold-opens or credits bumpers in sitcoms: they let me spend more time in a world I like, plotlines or no.
The best example of this is the Barbury Ghost story that was backing-up All-Star Western 4-6; it was a fun little arc, completely unrelated to the lead story. I’m reading All-Star Western because I like westerns, and moar westerns equals moar better. Again, that doesn’t necessarily hold true for all back-ups — I wasn’t particularly impressed with the El Diablo story that was backing-up the previous three issues — but I’d hate to dismiss the entire concept of back-ups just because they’re not always well-executed (otherwise, I’d have to stop reading comics altogether).
That said, I think I’ve disliked more back-ups than I’ve enjoyed so far. I especially disliked the Shazam! back-up in the most recent Justice League, which features all of the negatives Patrick mentioned: it’s overstuffed, too short, and doesn’t feel relevant to the story it’s backing-up. Still, I think they can be great when they’re handled with the care to turn the limits of the space into an asset, rather than a liability — which maybe can be said of comics in general.
Shelby: I am not a huge fan of the back-ups. More content is great, sure, but if the extra content in the back-up is super necessary to the story, just include it in the story. If the content in the back-up is just an enhancement to the story, well ok, sure I guess; if DC wants to give me a little extra I will take it. If the extra content has nothing to do with the story I’m reading, if it’s just an attempt to get me hooked on another story, then no thank you. It could just be me being stubborn-stupid, but I don’t need to be forced to read something new. If a comic is written in a way that makes me think, “gee, I wish I knew more about SHAZAM!, that would really grow my enjoyment of this story, say, maybe I should pick it up,” then I will. That’s the beauty of the comic book universe, and the comic book fan universe, really. I would rather talk to Peter or the folks at my comic book shop about other titles that I should read.
I am definitely not interested in paying more for comics simply because they include a back-up story. Again, it’s a principle sort of thing; I would prefer to decide to pick up a new title for $2.99 an issue that pay an extra dollar for some back-up content that I don’t necessarily want. I want an organic comic book experience, I want my interest in titles to grow naturally based on the titles I’m reading and the titles my friends are reading.




Shelby kinda got to the heart of what I was trying to say: I’m only reading slices of DC’s output, but I’m able to select it piecemeal. When these extra stories start to get bundled together and I don’t have a choice? That’s like contrary to the whole “read what you want” thing that makes a reader’s comic-reading-experience so unique.
I don’t know, I think you guys are really thinking of this in the wrong light. Do you get pissed off when you go to the movies and there’s a surprise short preceding it? You could perceive that as studios trying to cram unwanted content down your throat, but I don’t think anyone does. Instead, they’re almost universally enjoyed as fun little aperitifs, refreshing explorations of short-form storytelling that hearkens back to a tradition that has largely disappeared. I really think of back-ups in the same way.
Did the movie cost me 25% more because the short was attached to it?
Not that I’m Mr. Moneybags, here, but are you really bitching about a dollar? If we’re going to complain about fairness, movie tickets cost at least $8.50, whether you’re seeing a 3-hour epic or a 90-minute waif. Extra content should cost more, if it meas less content can cost less.
I’m “bitching about a dollar” in that I’d rather not be forced to pay it for content I didn’t ask for. I agree that extra content should could more – that makes all the sense in the world. But why is it that I have no chance to opt out of that “extra” content?
So what you’re saying is that you’d rather have the option, vs paying an extra dollar? When you got your digital copy of Justice League 7, did it come with the SHAZAM! story? I saw on Comixology/DC app that it was available separately. Was this not true for a stand alone JL 7?
SHAZAM! came with my digital copy of JL #7. I guess you could ALSO buy it separately.
Wait, wait, wait. It’s sounding like the biggest problem is the perception that this is “extra” content. Sure, it’s “extra” in that it’s an addendum to the 20-page comic that we’re used to, but I don’t think that a comic has exactly 20 pages or should cost exactly $2.99 are so inherent to the medium that anything variation necessarily counts as “extra.” If I extend your argument, I should be able to pay less for comics when I’d rather they didn’t have certain panels — say, Bruce Wayne revealing his identity to Green Lantern — that I didn’t ask for. This gets into some sticky questions regarding authorial intent and blah blah blah. I think we can agree that it’s okay to pretend that epilogue didn’t happen at the end of Deathly Hallows, but is it reasonable to expect to not have to pay for it?
Our conversation has become completely vertical now! There may be a fine line here, but it sounds like your point could be mixing “authorial intent” and “publisher intent.” Was SHAZAM! always intended to be read next to that issue of Justice League? Is there evidence in either work to suggest that? Does it even matter? They’re different stories, right?
Also, what epilogue? I don’t remember an epilogue to Deathly Hallows…
It’s interesting that you chose SHAZAM! since that’s the one back-up I’ve read that I expect will smash into the lead story. I may be wrong about this, but I really see that one as part of the Justice League story, just from a different perspective.
Ultimately, I think it’s tough to separate “authorial intent” from “publisher intent” in the world of comics, but I think you and I are firmly in the camp of not really giving a shit about intent. That two things go well together doesn’t need to have anything to do with intent. If it works, it works on it’s own merit.
I don’t think that that specific issue of SHAZAM! was meant to be read next to that exact issue of Justice League. Or at least there is nothing to suggest it. Neither is it suggested in the Barbary Ghost or El Diablo. Argument could be made for Nighthawk and Cinnamon, since they are a major player in All-Star Western 7.
I read through Hex and Arkham’s second adventure last night. And I did enjoy the Barbary Ghost stories that accompanied them, but especially as I was reading three issues back to back, it was weird to sort of hop back and forth between these unconnected narratives. I realize that I could have skipped around, reading the Hex stuff first and then going back for the BG story… this again may be a complaint with how digital stuff is handled…
If I could have comixology present me with the Barbary Ghost (all three issues) presented separately from those three issues of All-Star Western, I think it would have improved by experience of reading both.
This kind of grinds against my other argument, because I never would have picked out BG on its own, but I did enjoy reading it – retroactively justifying the higher price-tag. Especially digitally, I think there’s a smarter way to handle these things.
ALSO, why don’t we have a The Kingdom back-up story in Batwing, HMM?!?!
You have to keep in mind that these are designed to be read a month apart — where you’re normally reading all kinds of comics in the meantime — so that sense of hopping back and forth is kind of minimized. It ends up being more like reading Nightwing right after Batman on the Wednesday they come out (which I do anyway).
I do get that – and I assume that the collected editions will put the BG story in the back of the book, after Hex and Arkham escape from the Temple of Doom.
Sometimes I just skip ahead to the back up. (like I did with SHAZAM). Man, I hope that SHAZAM gets better. Captain Marvel has always been one of my favorites. I definitely like the new character design. I would agree with Drew that I would expect SHAZAM to end up in the Justice League main story at some point, or even breaking out into his own book. (fingers crossed). Also, in this week’s Detective Comics, there is a back up about Two-Face, which could easily end up in the main story. Also, I’d like to point out All-Star Western 7. The back up was about Nighthawk and Cinnamon, who are in both the back up and the main story.